Star Trek Beyond discussion – SPOILERS!

[Jordan aka FltAdmlWolf]

The new movie comes out on Friday (for many people -- sorry for those who have to wait)! 

Let's use this thread to collect our excitement, as well as our groans and moans

[Rahman and Rivi Vataix]

Don't forget to still use the spoiler feature of the forum in your posts as needed.

All you have to do is type something, highlight it, and then click on the eye button next to the smiley face/emoticon button on the message toolbar.

Spoiler

Then it'll be hidden from the "unread messages" feed as well!

Hopefully more joys than groans! Early reviews and advanced screening word of mouth has been positive!

Here's somewhat of a spoiler, I suppose: a little snippet of the score from the composer himself:

 

@sandiegosymphony rehearsing for Star Trek Beyond Live to Picture Premiere at Comic Con! @startrekmovie

A video posted by Michael Giacchino (@m_giacchino) on Jul 19, 2016 at 10:21am PDT

Edited July 25, 2016 by Roshanara Rahman

[Sal Taybrim]

8/10 - would watch while sober.

It's campy, silly has a good heart and didn't make me want to throw things at the screen.  It's not perfect; but it's certainly a step in the right direction.

[+ Rune Jolara]

Just saw it... 

I'm usually very critical of the Abrams timeline but I thought it was nicely done. There were a few silly moments but they were really added a bit of fun in my opinion. There was even a little plot behind all the action. I loved Jaylah... I have no idea what race she is but she was a very nice addition.

Spoiler

I am so sure there will be some who disagree with me which is fine, but IMO the Sulu reveal was done beautifully. A man who has a family he obviously loves and shows concern for them throughout without a single word said.

 

[AlexV]

Seems there was even a reason for the music in the first trailer...

Spoiler

I've a nasty feeling I'm going to be trying very hard not to use that brand of jamming in a sim...

 

[Jordan aka FltAdmlWolf]

Just saw it!

Spoiler

Things I didn't like: 

• As I mentioned in a previous thread, I really dislike the continued abuse of the Enterprise. 
• The whole rap music / "is that classical?" thing was hokey and it made me roll my eyes. It's like how Data refers to the 20th century as "ancient" in TNG. Like, we don't talk about the founding of the United States as "ancient." Is there no "classical" music in the future?
• The reliance on every single part of the plan going absolutely perfectly. Need a ship? Find a ship! Need transporters? They work! Need it to fly? 100 years later? Sure! Just drop it off an incredibly convenient cliff that's, like, 5,000 feet elevation. How long'd it take for you folks to hike up there with no water?

Things that were awesome: 

• YORKTOWN!!! Wow! One thing I really love about these new movies is that they've really revitalized what the future looks like from the Trek we've seen before. The ability to use CG has made everything so much more expansive, and I thought Yorktown was the best set-piece of the whole movie. The docking "runways" were really incredible and fun in the way that they could be seen from inside Yorktown. (Although, what a nightmare to design a runway that the Constitution class engineering hull seemed to be sliding along – especially near the docking port where it seemed it was made specifically for that ship – and then not have it fit any other designs that come along later, including the new ENT-A we saw at the end of the film! It's obsolete before it's even built.)
• Great Sulu moment with his family. 
• Mostly uplifting message. 

On the whole I though it was a fairly good movie. 

[Merrick R'Ven]

I just saw the movie. In one word ~AWESOME!!~ 

 

It was a true rollercoaster ride the whole way through. It had tidbits embedded for those of us who loved the TOS and enough tension and action for thoes who did not.

 

I loved it and recommend it!!

 

WHOOWHOO!!

[Rahman and Rivi Vataix]

Saw it earlier today! Spoilers below, but I also enjoyed it, even with its flaws here and there.

Spoiler

 

Having seen over and over the Enterprise's destruction in the trailers, I was pleasantly surprised to see the ship's destruction actually takes a lot longer and that the crew were making efforts to still somehow get out of there with just the saucer's impulse drive. Between the beating both the Enterprise and the Franklin endure throughout the movie, it definitely portrays Starfleet starships as tough and powerful (Go Starfleet Corps of Engineers!).

I know some fans have complained that the JJ films have depicted the Enterprise as always getting beat up, but I honestly felt the Enterprise shown in Beyond seemed even more resilient than its depictions in the previous films. Yes, she dies, but it takes a hell of an effort to finally kill her. And though she goes down early in the movie, it felt like the Enterprise was still featured for a good chunk of the movie with Kirk and Chekov's visit to the crashed saucer.

The motorcycle was all right, but I think I would have enjoyed it more if it had been one of those hoverbikes that we saw the Iowa cop use in Star Trek 2009. It's not inconceivable for the Franklin to carry it aboard, but it still just seemed a bit odd.

I liked seeing the different pairings, though I felt Sulu and Uhura didn't get as much attention. I would have liked to have seen Sulu taking on the roll of "captain" for the imprisoned Enterprise survivors, and it almost feels like perhaps there's a deleted scene of Sulu, Uhura, and co. planning their escape/distress signal before we actually see their attempt. Also, those poor redshirts (and blueshirts and goldshirts! Given how big the Enterprise is in this timeline, I wonder if even half of the crew survived based on the relatively few we saw rescued).

Krall/Edison deserved a little more fleshing out. Getting to see the reveal of who he really is earlier in the film might have helped. I had originally thought they were going to go the angle of aliens viewing the Federation's exploration as imperialism and colonies and starbases like Yorktown as more of an invasion, especially with the line "This is where the frontier pushes back" and some of the interviews from the writers and director that stated the big question of the film was deconstructing and examining Star Trek and its idea of the Federation.

Instead the movie was about unity/integration versus divisiveness and the fall of a starship captain into madness after losing his crew and ship and feeling abandoned to die. To that end, I think it would have been more effective if Captain Edison had been mentioned earlier in the film, even without showing what he looked like. Or honestly, don't worry about ruining the twist and just show Edison and the Franklin disappearing into the unknown as a prologue (complete with a proper title card!), and then fast forwarding to Kirk's time.

The film ends with Commodore Paris mentioning how Edison had originally been remembered as a war hero, but we didn't hear about that at all until then, so the film feels like for the first two-thirds it was about the Federation versus the rest of the aliens out there who might not want to be part of such a thing and then suddenly one-third a movie about the struggle of a former soldier to find his place in a new age of peace.

I still loved how Enterprise the series ended up getting so much love from this movie. Mentions of MACOs, phase cannons, Xindi!

The movie is a feast for the eyes, especially the outer space visuals from the space combat to the presentation of Yorktown. Seeing the Franklin facing the swarm at the end was a moment of awe, and I loved the unconventional shots like the view of the Enterprise launching from Yorktown, the ship flying at warp, and the construction timelapse at the end. The fight scenes and action inside the ship, though, were a bit hard to follow.

I know some are bothered by the Franklin being mentioned by Scotty as the "first Earth ship to reach warp 4" given that it was a Federation vessel that got lost in the 2160s, a decade after Enterprise NX-01, which of course had a warp 5 engine. To me, that's easily explained by Scotty's choice to say specifically Earth's first warp 4 ship, not the first warp 4 ship or first Federation warp 4 ship. I could see the Franklin having been built before NX-01 and then getting a new registry number after the Federation was formed and the Earth Starfleet was turned into the Federation Starfleet.

For all the talk about the revelation of Sulu's sexuality, I thought it was actually quite brief. They don't even kiss! It would have been nice to show Sulu and his husband and daughter spending some time together on Yorktown.

That said, I was surprised when I left the theater to see the movie had run over two hours. It definitely doesn't feel like it, but I can understand they probably couldn't have extended it any further.

 

All in all, a fun film and a great 50th anniversary celebration.

[+ Nadeshiko]

I just finished seeing it. I don't think I really like it, but I don't dislike it.  From what I'm reading, I think I'm going to dislike what a lot of people liked

 

Spoiler

From the top, in order of apperaence

I like how the start portrays Kirk as a man who isn't sure of what he's doing or what he is - more's the pity that it didn't use this framework more! Had there been more scenes with Kirk strugging to define himself through the movie, I think this framing device would have worked. As it is, it just feels.. underused.

The Yorktown. Who thought that up, and can they be fired from ever designing starbases again? As the movie demonstrated, it was in fact a very fragile snowflake and I see they don't know the meaning of the word 'redundancy' or 'emergency bioattack'. From the perspective of looks: great. From the perspective of 'being a functional starbase', terrible. I will say that I liked the scenes sit there, but really -really-, guys?

The character moments on board the Yorktown were good - the quiet moment of Sulu's family, Uhura and Spock, it demonstrated the bonds of family. Granted, it was also an excuse to GET YOU WORRIED but I expect that.

The Enterprise being destroyed: ... Yeah. Sure. OK. You done doing this? You can stop just blowing up the ship to punch up the drama. It gets old, and I really didn't liked how the movie kept going 'Nope, not going to succeed'. Although the moment where it crashes into the planet a-la Troi was pretty great. 

Obvious traitor was kinda obvious, incidentally. I will give them credit that you kinda wonder a little but it was unfortunatly too heavily foreshadowed.Uh.. 

Krall just happened to find this supertech. I'm sure, writers, I'm sure.  Also, you mind not giving him All The Obvious Villain Lines from TVTropes? That'd be cool too. Hell, why don't you make him make sense? Have some gray? Not alternatively be both insanely smart (please don't tell me that all of that info is available by hacking on the probes, seriously) and insanely dumb (people sneak in while he's about to launch ALL THE SHIPS). 

And at this point you can see why I didn't like the movie. I didn't like the villain. He was more .. off than anything, like they just wanted him to be creepy and disturbing and I'm sure that might have worked but it really didn't. The fact he forgot about the Franklin is just.. something. And only at the very end of the movie do they bother to explain that he might have some reasoning for what he was, but even that was weak.

That all said, I'll probably still buy it. A C- rating is still watchable, after all. >_>

[Amuro McKnight]

Spoiler

 

I had a fun time watching the movie but the villain was very weak sauce. They didn't explain what happened to his crew, if those other aliens are his crew transformed as well, or how he came across this tech that changed him. His whole motivation that the Federation abandoned him was really really weak as well and he's been around for over a hundred years or more. He can obviously get out of the nebula with his swarm ships. It doesn't explain how long it took him or why he couldn't have just left when he needed to and then there's the whole "I want to kill everybody" plot...seen it. Not impressed.

I really wanted to see more space exploration. The whole destroy the Enterprise in the opening act seemed like they wanted to save budget so they can be mostly on a setting on the planet.

 

It was also weird to me that they wanted to promote Kirk to Vice Admiral, 2 ranks above Captain if you exclude Commadore

 

 

What I do like is how they didn't tack on a romance between Kirk and Jaylah or remind us he's Captain Kirk by having him in bed with some hot chick. There's actually more chemistry between her an Scotty. Love the banter between Spock and Bones.

 

 

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Roshanara Rahman
placing text in spoiler space

[Rahman and Rivi Vataix]

1 hour ago, Amuro McKnight said:

Spoiler

It was also weird to me that they wanted to promote Kirk to Vice Admiral, 2 ranks above Captain if you exclude Commadore.

 

Spoiler

Well, considering the last time Kirk was promoted in the Kelvin Timeline, he jumped all five of the other line officer ranks to get to captain, jumping two would show the Office of the Admiralty had learned some restraint...

 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Roshanara Rahman

[Ryan King]

Spoiler

I just had a chance to see it last night in IMAX. I loved it. I was amused at how many moments in the storyline seemed to harken back to the earlier movies:

1. Kirk and Bones celebrating his birthday and Kirk's resistance to celebrating.
2. The sort of reversal of Kirk from the original Star Trek movies (Do I want to be a Captain vs. I want to be back in space)
3. The crashing of the saucer on the planet (as previously mentioned)

I'm catching it again tomorrow so I'll see if others stick out.

The remembrance of Nimoy right at the beginning. Beautiful. The ending where he goes through Ambassador Spock's personal items and finds the picture of the original crew. I could not stop smiling.

I agree with many of the observations of the plot points, especially the Enterprise's continual abuse. But in so many ways this movie reminded me a lot of The Original Series. A bit shaky on plot, lots of action with elevated drama and a ton of heart. I'm also pleased because I couldn't stand Into Darkness when I first saw it. For Beyond, I walked out of the theater upbeat and at times found myself totally immersed in the visuals, especially during the Yorktown reveal. For me, that's high praise cause my mind is usually in a few different places.

One other thing I will note that struck me, I don't think I've ever recalled a Star Trek movie that demonstrated so much diversity from a Trek perspective. I could count at least a dozen races I couldn't recognize and I am not quite sure why but that really made me quite happy - the idea that it truly is a Federation.

Also, anyone know where I can buy that coffee mug from the opening? I loved it and I cannot find a licensed version anywhere! Arrgh.

 

[Tony, aka Rouiancet]

Just saw it yesterday! A lot of folks have said what I've been thinking already, esp. Rich & Ryan, but there's one major thing I want to give them credit for:

Spoiler

I've been frustrated, re: the first two reboot movies, and even several of the TOS/TNG era movies, with the ways the central ideology of Trek has been ignored (or at least taken for granted). I'm not talking about the Prime Directive, either, or even exploration (though I love the crew giving the opening Trek monologue at the film's end--and I love that Uhura gets to say 'where no one has gone before')--but, rather, that coming together, cooperation, equality, and the free exchange of ideas are the foundations on which the Federation's utopia rests. What I LOVED about Beyond is that it's front and center: Whether it's Uhura arguing with Krall, or Scotty and Kirk talking to Jaylah, we know exactly what the Federation stands for and how the people who serve it feel about it. 

I had a few other problems with the film, but overall it was a hugely and unexpectedly fun time.

Spoiler

...but oh man, if they could knock off that damn shaky cam, my eyeballs would be much happier. *shakes fist*

 

[Ryan King]

Spoiler

To add one additional thought I'd be interested in hearing feedback from others on, this movie felt as though this iteration of Trek is finally comfortable with itself. I am not quite sure what about it exactly made it come across that way. Perhaps it was a combination of the acting and the storyline. But as I watched I felt like I was still in Trek but this was no longer ToS. Maybe it just takes me awhile to accept change!

I also really enjoyed how Into Darkness and Beyond each had their opening scenes establishing where the characters were in some form of questionable situation that gets resolved and establishes the upcoming plot. Then we get a nice break with an opening and the peppy new-Trek theme song. Almost seems like you're getting a mini-episode and a movie rolled into one.

[RaWolf]

On 7/26/2016 at 0:20 AM, Roshanara Rahman said:

 

  Hide contents

Well, considering the last time Kirk was promoted in the Kelvin Timeline, he jumped all five of the other line officer ranks to get to captain, jumping two would show the Office of the Admiralty had learned some restraint...

 

Wow to quote a quote from another quote

Spoiler

It raise questions for me as well, but my brother made a good point saying that the Pips of Commodore or Rear Admiral was not introduced sooner than TNG. That might be the whole issue in this problem. I might be wrong and he just could skip ranks lol

So back to my review  Saw it today!

Spoiler

There a few things I did not like about the movie:

• As said before, for every problem there was a solution and I got to agree that it was a bit annoying on the end. Thought at the same time you saw the introduction of creativity, so don't know if they wanted to balance it.
• Big minus was the Enterprise getting destroyed again, it really gets annoying and that was actually the main objection for me to no go towards the movie. At the last minute changed my mind and went for it anyway. Thought it brought another annoyance point up, the USS Enterprise-A, while I don't mind that the upgrade version was given the ship had been destroyed a few times so the A should already been passed?
• The lack of explanation into how the bad guy survive so long. Yes ancient technology that length his life, but how? Who were those that fought for him?

Things that I do like about the movie:

• It give a new perspective in starbases for sure, but the Yorktown was a whole new level that both my brother and I made twitch our eyes. I was stunned on the size and the way it interacted with ships. Maybe something for simming?
• The interaction of the characters, I like the struggle with emotions, thoughts and reactions on certain factors.
• The respect of bringing the NX era in the end of the movie made me smile, as a huge fan of the NX serie I was glad to see that the new movie told something about it.
• The USS Franklin and its crew, love the design and seeing Spock in the uniform did it for me!

 

[Amuro McKnight]

14 hours ago, RaWolf said:

Wow to quote a quote from another quote

So back to my review  Saw it today!

  Hide contents

There a few things I did not like about the movie:

Things that I do like about the movie:

• It give a new perspective in starbases for sure, but the Yorktown was a whole new level that both my brother and I made twitch our eyes. I was stunned on the size and the way it interacted with ships. Maybe something for simming?
• The interaction of the characters, I like the struggle with emotions, thoughts and reactions on certain factors.
• The respect of bringing the NX era in the end of the movie made me smile, as a huge fan of the NX serie I was glad to see that the new movie told something about it.
• The USS Franklin and its crew, love the design and seeing Spock in the uniform did it for me!

  Hide contents

I'd call the Franklin a post NX era ship because it lacks a lot of the designs that the NX-01 had. It's more of a step before this alternate timeline type of ship or this universe's interpretation of what the NX era is like...which is weird because if we take continuity into effect, the deviation in timeline would have happened when after the destruction of the Kelvin. Scotty also called the Franklin Earth's first warp 4 vessel but the serial number was NX-(3 digit number), meaning there has been a hilarious amount of ships since NX-01 and the fact that they are using the NX prefix even now means it's either a prototype ship that uses NX or they just retcon the continuity even further. Then again, they mentioned the weapons were spatial torpedoes and plasma/particle cannons...which predates the NX-01 level of weapons, yet the bridge design is more advanced than the NX-01 style. If it was Earth's first Warp 4 vessel and the level of tech i consistent with pre-NX-01 Enterprise (Being warp 5), then it shouldn't have a high serial number count as the NX-01 is the first of its kind to use the NX prefix.

 

I think Bones said it best about the Yorktown. It's like a snow globe in space. Other than how cool it looks, it seemed more impractical than anything. Also how structures are built over the corridors that ships enter and leave seems very dangerous as what happened if there was an accident and a ship went out of control or had a meltdown or exploded. They even proved that a small enough ship can go right through the corridor on purpose and fly inside the station.

I also found the doomsday weapon the villain used to be hilariously ineffective even as a biological agent. What was his plan?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+ Hutch]

Well I finally got around to watching the film this evening.

I went in with pretty decent expectations, excited by some of the things I'd read, about interesting bad guys, and 5 year missions.

Suffice it to say I was very disappointed. Karl Urban was once again the absolute highlight for me and the Spock/McCoy scenes were the best. But other than a few, brief choice moments (Sabotage, "skip to the end") I thought it was a pretty poor effort. 

The first two films got away with massive plot holes by just being ridiculously entertaining, but not this one.

5/10 but still a better film than Nemesis however.

 

Edited August 9, 2016 by Hutch

[+ Hutch]

 

Spoiler

 

The fact that the bad guy is the captain of the Franklin is signposted early on which made his big reveal fall flat.

The action sequences ranged from the confused to the silly, and both extremes robbed most of the fights of any tension at all. I was actually bored during several of them, which is not what you want in an action film!

It felt like the film had been written as a collection of great ideas for set pieces first, with the plot linking them together added later. That meant some of the exposition just didn't work. Why, at the end, does Krall make it to the top of the tower and Scotty to the control room in the same amount of time it takes Kirk to leave the Franklin? 

Little bits of JJ Abrams actually work against the film now. Using the same identifiers such as Beastie Boys reference and the actor on the Yorktown whose name I've completely forgotten but was in Star Wars and Heroes remind you that this is Abrams's Star Trek universe, but that also breaks the suspension of disbelief which is definitely to the detriment of the film.

 

 

 

[Robert Falcon]

This is, admittedly, a bit of thread necro, but I wanted to add in a couple of cents.  Especially considering I've been one of the bigger critics of the Kelvin-timeline movies.

I finally got around to seeing Beyond and, I must admit, it was not nearly as bad as I thought it would be.  So, given the amount of griping I've done at this flick, it seemed only fair I give a bit of an update for it.

First, the bad.  My single biggest gripe is the continued mistreatment of the Enterprise.  After two rather pointless refits (one at the end of Into Darkness and another one before Beyond), and two movies of the ship getting pounded on, the ship's destruction (not a spoiler since it was in the trailer) had absolutely zero impact.  Seeing the new one at the end of the movie prompted something of an 'Eh...' from me.  Kinda counting down the minutes until they blow THIS one up, too.

I'm also a little less than thrilled at the bad guy.  I mean...  I kinda get what they were doing, but at the same time I don't.  I don't knock it as hard as Khan in the last movie, but it didn't really get me going.

Now, for the good.  And I must say, where this movie did well, it did REALLY well.

The character interplay was some of the best I've yet seen.  I felt the movie was well written and acted by all the main cast, and that the cast showed that they are the right folks for the roles.  (I really don't know who could fill Anton Yelchin's shoes...  He'll be sorely missed.)

The plot was not nearly as derivative as I feared.  I was glad to see that the plot guess I'd made from the trailer was wrong in several key areas.  In the end, I was okay with the story they told.  (Enterprise's destruction notwithstanding.)

The set pieces, for the most part, worked.  While the timing of the ending sequence was a little... wonky... I could give it enough of a pass.  I was actually okay with the use of "Sabotage", mostly since it's been established as a thing in the Kelvin-timeline with Star Trek 2009.  (And... I really liked that sequence...  It was pretty cool.  ::Smiles.:: )

And there were a few good continuity nods.  Mentions of Franklin's captain's history tying back to Enterprise, and both uniforms and shuttlepods from Enterprise within Franklin's recorded footage.  Stuff like that I like to see.  (And, since Enterprise supposedly exists in both timelines, it's inclusion was appreciated.)  And I, too, felt like they gave Leonard Nimoy's passing a very respectful acknowledgement.

So, in the end, I actually enjoyed watching it.  They've scored a few extra points in my book, and I'll try to look at the next one with a more favorable eye.

[+ Trellis Vondaryan]

Funny, I recently got around to watching this too. I was thoroughly unimpressed with it. It wasn't as bad as Into Darkness (which I liked initially then hated upon rewatch), but it was a very "eh" movie for me overall.

Like I initially thought, it was an action film that happened to be set in space and also happened to be Star Trek. Substitute a character and setting and it could easily have been another Fast and Furious film so far as I'm concerned.

The visual style didn't appeal to me, I thought the story was rather bland and didn't have a whole lot of emotional investment. There was some good character interaction, especially between Spock and Bones, and they did handle Nimoy's death well, but otherwise I was pretty bored with the movie.

[Robert Falcon]

Oh, absolutely.  The Kelvin-timeline movies are best seen as sci-fi action movies, in my opinion.  As sci-fi action, they're pretty good.  As Star Trek, though?  That's pretty much up to the individual.  (And I still have a hard time in that regard.)

Still, this one didn't cause me as much difficulty as Into Darkness did.  I haven't reached the point of 'hate', but my opinion DID drop a bit on subsequent viewings.  And I'll give it this much credit; it didn't torpedo my interest in the franchise like The Force Awakens did with any new Star Wars movie.  (Rogue One pulled it back a bit, but The Last Jedi is still in the 'rental at best' category.)

[Blake]

On 05/31/2017 at 11:21 PM, Trellis Vondaryan said:

could easily have been another Fast and Furious film so far as I'm concerned.

The visual style didn't appeal to me, I thought the story was rather bland and didn't have a whole lot of emotional investment.

Were we watching the same film? Like, are you sure you went to go see Beyond?