[Round 3] Top Sims Contest Discussion

[Kali Nicholotti]

Well, it isn't for everyone...

Maybe it shouldn't be such a competitive thing? Maybe just let the ships XO's or something pick a sim each month to showcase on the forums? I dunno...

Someone get the defibrillator and we will just shock the thing back to life.

[Tato Zeme]

You know, it might be nice to drop the "Contest" part of it and just make it a showcase of excellent posts.

It's impossible to be truly fair in this, anyways -- a lot of the better posts are the culmination of weeks, if not months, if not YEARS of plot and character development, and they won't make sense to people who haven't been following along, people who don't care about the characters. There are exceptions -- introducing a new character will normally stand on its own. Something dramatic enough that people can empathize without knowing who, especially if there's a bit of an introduction at the start.... but by and large, every post is literally better when read by people from the same ship, and comparitively worse for people from other ships. It's not a matter of people being unfair -- it's a matter of the methods being unfair.

And if we wanted the contest to TRULY be fair, we'd need to have judges who read every single ship -- and I doubt anyone is THAT into this. Especially since the qualities that make for a good sim are not the same that make for a good stand-alone post -- but that's another rant entirely.

On the other hand, you could probably fix the contest somewhat just by having someone update the polls regularly. An unfair contest that favours ships who participate in it may well be better than no contest at all.

[Solok]

Solok - I don't understand your point. What bothers you here? Since there's a very little to none change for participants. Or you want to work on this to participate in organization of contest?

I'm not bothered -- I'm not sure it matters much, one way or the other, to me. I was just (a) curious what about the contest was perceived to be unfair (and that curiosity seems to have been resolved, since it seems the perceived unfairness stems from the unequal participation of individuals in the forums and the uneven representation of ships in the contest), and then ( intrigued by the quest to make the contest fairer in the hope of getting more participation. I'm all for fairness, but at the same time, I'm not sure a fairer contest is one in which more people participate -- which I would think is the primary element involved in the "death" of the contest. And I think Kyros' suggestion is probably correct, that an unfair contest in which people participate is better than no contest at all.

Does anyone know why the people who don't participate don't participate? Or do we just have competing hypotheses at this point?

But trust me -- I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, least of all people who are deeply committed to the Top Sims Contest and its revivification. I'm not looking to participate in the contest's organization -- again, my posts were prompted entirely out of curiosity. My participation here is purely theoretical.

[Guest]

Take a few days off to catch the flu and look what happens

The amount of discussion is heartening in terms of interest in the resurrection of the Top Sims Contest.

I've just read through the various posts and have the following observations.

1.The fact that some ships have a large forum presence compared to others seems to be the main reason for the perceived "unfairness" of the competition. This results presumable in more sims submitted and a larger vote for the ships with more forum presence.

2.I do think that the one of the values in the Top Sim contest is in encouraging newer writers. Speaking personally although my motivation for writing is mostly internal it was still a buzz to see one of my sims put forward to the completion.

3.Even if not all the ships are represented it still gives a wider view of the writers we have in the fleet.

I believe we should simply start up the Best Sim Competition under the “old” rules for the moment. Towards the end of the year we could gather ideas on voting etc. This would give us time to work on the current suggestions more as well.

[Kali Nicholotti]

I'd have to agree. Lets get it going again under the rules that now exists so that it doesn't fade away while we worry about the red tape. Something is better than nothing I think in this situation. Maybe as things progress, we can modify and revert rules as needed, and of course I offer any help I can give with the contest, setup, or management...just give the word.

[Nimue]

For a start – old system have a calendar which is for me deadly confusing despite the fact that I worked on it... twice... made fatal mistake first time... sorry Admiral, but it’s.. it’s a horror! :: shudder:: Can it be simplified into say... monthly competition with a voting period say 4 times a year. One for every/each 3 months.

Now here’s the case – why old type will not work – submission periods and sims:

Round 2 – February 16. – March 01.- No sims on display no winner

Round 3 – March 02. - March 15.- No sims on display no winner

Round 4 – March 16. - March 29.- No sims on display no winner

Round 5 – March 30. - April 12.

The Turbolift to Nowhere, Lt T'Lea & Major Adarnis - USS Constitution-B

Attack on the Campus, Iolo Llewelyn - USS Challenger

Barely Controlled Chaos, Karynn Ehlanii / USS Independence

Round 6 – April 13. – April 26.

"The Alamo", 1Lt. Iolo Madoc Llewelyn -USS Challenger

No Mr. Computer, Greekle - USS Tiger

Urgent, Dr Solok - USS Tiger

Round 7 – April 27. – May 10.

The Dance, Lt Storos & Cpt Riley - USS Tiger

Mirror Image, Lt Cmdr Firestarter - USS Tiger

Where Laziness Gets You, Lt. Atimen - USS Tiger

Old Times, Major Dade Adarnis - USS Constitution

A Virgin Bride, Lt Clack - USS Tiger

Round 8 – May 11. – May 24.

Petty Officer Ash, Crazyhorse, by Kyros Gideon – no competition so this sim is a winner

Round 9 – May 25. – June 07.

Evil Unleashed, Lt Cmdr Firestarter & PO Muller

Rear Admiral Rocar: Part I: The End of the Prospero, by Rear Admiral Rocar

USS Prospero: And My Ending is Despair, by LCMD Quinn Reynolds

Round 10 – June 08. – June 21.

Bridge Flashback, Ensign Inarr "Sssteve" Rogg – no competition so this sim is a winner

Round 11 – June 22. – July 05.

<< I’m coming, my love...>>, PNPC Satscher - USS Challenger -– no competition so this sim is a winner

Round 12 – July 06. – July 19. - No sims on display no winner

Round 13 – July 20. – August 02. – it start today...

BUT – next problem is voting period which is during next round and closes with it, in which case only Round 12 sims are to be voted about... oh, no sims? – ups!

And on the other hand why would some sims be instant winners just because they were posted at the right time (one is mine, and.. erm... was posted only as an act of defiance – with all the discussion alive I was waiting for someone to rise a question of selfproposing to discuss it once again and close the subject once and for all)? So you can count no submissions in Round 11.

So what we want to do with this?

NEXT – Whoever reached rank Commander is/must be a good writer. I think Command should have their own competition if have a need for that and leave this one to lower decks!

[Nimue]

Now watching it, maybe it's not that messy – rounds 5, 6 and 7 can stay as they are, each one Poll, and 8, 9 and 10 can be turned into one Poll. That way this round can ACTUALLY start today!

[Kali Nicholotti]

Well, lets do it!

[Nimue]

Sorry I'm a chicken. Will do it if get approval!

[Guest]

Looks like we have a plan to get this thing off the ground.

I'll go ask premission then.

[Nimue]

Are there two people who REALLY want to take over administration of this?

Requires setting up the bi-weekly threads, moving sims around, making sure it gets announced on the site news, etc....

I know I'll regret this, but... Here's one!

[Kali Nicholotti]

Are there two people who REALLY want to take over administration of this?

Requires setting up the bi-weekly threads, moving sims around, making sure it gets announced on the site news, etc....

I know I'll regret this, but... Here's one!

And two. ::Raises hand::

[Guest]

And me . So now we have three.

[Kali Nicholotti]

Hey, three heads are always better than two!

=)

[Nimue]

Any news?

[Guest]

No nothing. Do we just go ahead and start somehting ?

[Kali Nicholotti]

No nothing. Do we just go ahead and start somehting ?

I have no power, nor real direction, but if you tell me what I need to do, I will do it to the best of my ability...=)

[Guest]

As you guys seem all set I'll see what we can stir up...

I would definitely like to see the top sims back on track.

[Tal Tel-ar]

I also agree with the spirit of getting this up and going again.

And while I understand some of the concerns regarding the manner of voteing and who wins I thnk those are matters we can address once we have been able to get this up and running.

As for some of the other comments... well this is for well written sims... to me that means a sim that can stand alone and be read by anyone even if they have no idea of the crew, ship, mission or shore leave that it takes place in.

Haveing served on 4 different ships within the fleet so far I can honestly say that I have seen a large number of excellently written stand alone sims. They are out there and in many case's well worth shareing.

Regardless lets breath some life into this puppy and then work on improveing it once we have some interest generated.

[Nimue]

Since I just talked a friend into doing something equally rebelious - not to leave him to face it alone here we go!

Vote HERE!

Edited August 12, 2009 by Ambassador Labria

[Guest]

Thanks Boby!

I'll send something around the Tiger OOC list and see if we can get it sent on the Fleet wide announcement, too.

[Ilene Torza]

I know personally I got frustrated back at the beginning of the year when, although people were allowed to self-submit SIMs, there was much complaining about voting for your own and rumors of "unfairness" and ships boycotting. At that point, I threw up my hands and gave up - which is about the point this whole thing died.

I was a huge supporter of the Top SIMs contest under its original rules. And I'd love to see it going again. I personally don't understand why whole ships boycott it as "unfair" - particularly when myself and those I know and talk to vote for the SIM we think to be "BEST" regardless of which ship it came from. I don't think some convoluted system of submission (which only decreases the number of posts that get showcased here) or voting assignment (which seems complex beyond my ability to understand) really fixes the problem of "fairness". I think it becomes fair when people honor the spirit of the "Contest" and honestly vote for the SIM that is the best to them.

All that being said, my favorite part of this, when it was first introduced, was the fact that meaningful feedback on a SIM could be given (using the hamburger format of constructive criticism). As a writer, I personally am always looking at how I can improve. However, I noticed that when people (including myself) offered feedback, it was met with defensiveness and resistance - which meant that I personally quit leaving feedback and most of the feedback offered became relatively unhelpful positive comments with no room for growth. So that means that my favorite part of this contest is dead. I recognize that in the fleet we have a number of different writing styles - and preferences - and that's probably a big part of the reason that this part of the contest doesn't work. It probably also plays a role in the perception of "fairness" in voting.

Personally, I think that the nomination of one's SIM by someone else to this contest is an incredible honor. And if it gets started again, particularly if it was under the original rules, I would certainly do my best to encourage my ship to participate by nominating any of those SIMs they feel is worthy of the honor. However, given my own busy schedule, and the bad taste I still have in my mouth over all the arguments over this contest, I think I'm going to pass on helping in any way other than participating as an average member and encouraging my crewmates to do the same.

[Guest]

...what she said...

I agree with pretty much every point above. Sadly, I don't have the spare time to devote to organising the top sims comp otherwise I would!