Jump to content

Time until Halloween Avatar Contest closes. Get in costume now!

The Halloween Avatar Contest has closed! We'll announce the winners next week! 

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Recommended Posts

So as a somewhat younger member to the Trek fandom. My opinions may be different than others, as I didn’t start watching the show till I was older. I should state I’m in my early twenties. I have seen everything but all of the Star Trek Enterprise series so I have a good grasp on the universe. 
 

That being said I have talked to a lot of people that have negative things to say about the newest shows Discovery and Picard. And this is where my discussion begins. As a huge fan of Star Wars for example I see the hatred of the newest movies. I understand some of it was disappointing, but if your a true fan you still find something to love the show/movie by in my honest opinion. So when it come to Discovery I remember the biggest complaint I heard being “It’s just not the Trek I know.”

 

True it wasn’t like the shows from years ago. It had a modern look. Or to quote someone “It looked to advanced.”

 

Uhhh wait I’m sorry, but this is the future and from what I know things are supposed to be advanced. Yes, back in the day the LCARS DisplayFusion was considered futuristic, but now with the graphics they have people say it’s too much? I truly don’t get it. 
 

There’s more reasons I heard such as “Section 31 shouldn’t have been implemented, that ship is ridiculous, the whole story is stupid. Those are just a few reasons I heard. 
 

Picard even more so. I personally found highs and lows about the shows, but that’s the same with the ones everyone knows. 
 

So I guess my real question is why have people lost their love for the show just because things have changed? Some of it to reflect the universe as it should be and of course some that we could live without. 
 

As I stated above though if your a true fan shouldn’t you be able to find something that you love regardless? The shows can’t truly be so bad that it would make you not still love the franchise of old. So why can’t people find things about the new shows to like?

Edited by Maddi Hyden
Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me start off by saying I enjoyed both Picard and Discovery and am eagerly waiting for the next seasons of both!

 

That being said, the frustration I have with both shows is the format. I miss the episodic story telling of TNG, VOY, DS9, and TOS.  Each episode is a new 50 minute adventure with it's own plot.  Occasionally you'd get a to be continued, and sometimes the plot arcs would link together, but most of the time each episode was it's own self-contained plot.  That style of storytelling opened to door for much more character development across the whole cast, and it allowed the writers to explore the universe and current events.  Both Discovery and Picard go with a season wide plot.  It's like watching a 10 hour movie instead of a series of episodes and therefore the writers really only get to tell one big story.  The styling is so different from the episodic style that the feeling of the show is going to be different.  Different isn't bad, it's just different.

 

I love that Picard and Discovery brought the fandom into the modern age and wasn't afraid to show off the dark aspects of the Trek universe. Grittiness is inherent in life. I do long for an episodic format of show though, as I feel like it allows the writers to explore trek as a whole more.

 

My two cents.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

True it wasn’t like the shows from years ago. It had a modern look. Or to quote someone “It looked to advanced.”

 

Uhhh wait I’m sorry, but this is the future and from what I know things are supposed to be advanced. Yes, back in the day the LCARS DisplayFusion was considered futuristic, but now with the graphics they have people say it’s too much? I truly don’t get it. 

Because it's too advanced compared to TNG/DS9/VOY which come after it in the chronological order. It's more advanced than TOS, which occurs chronologically in the same time frame! This is the problem with prequels. (And I do still hold this to a lesser degree against Discovery, but it's not the main reason I don't like it.)

Quote

So I guess my real question is why have people lost their love for the show just because things have changed? Some of it to reflect the universe as it should be and of course some that we could live without. 
 

As I stated above though if your a true fan shouldn’t you be able to find something that you love regardless? The shows can’t truly be so bad that it would make you not still love the franchise of old. So why can’t people find things about the new shows to like?

Because being a fan of something does not mean you have to like everything in the fandom. There's no such thing as a true or false fan of something. If you like something, you're a fan of it, really. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tiria Hamasaki said:

Because it's too advanced compared to TNG/DS9/VOY which come after it in the chronological order. It's more advanced than TOS, which occurs chronologically in the same time frame! This is the problem with prequels. (And I do still hold this to a lesser degree against Discovery, but it's not the main reason I don't like it.)

As true as that is when you think about it technically it’s not. Back when those shows were airing the technology and special effects were at the top of their scale, but now that technology can truly reflect that of the future is it really some that should be upsetting. This is the future after all things are supposed to look advanced and hi tech. 
 

I think if they had the technology we have now was around those shows would look just like Discovery or Picard. 

3 hours ago, Tiria Hamasaki said:

Because being a fan of something does not mean you have to like everything in the fandom. There's no such thing as a true or false fan of something. If you like something, you're a fan of it, really. 

That’s a good point and one I can agree with. There are always things that people don’t like, but no one likes everything. Your point is well taken no matter what your a fan and that’s the way it should be. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Wes Greaves said:

That being said, the frustration I have with both shows is the format. I miss the episodic story telling of TNG, VOY, DS9, and TOS.  Each episode is a new 50 minute adventure with it's own plot.  Occasionally you'd get a to be continued, and sometimes the plot arcs would link together, but most of the time each episode was it's own self-contained plot.  That style of storytelling opened to door for much more character development across the whole cast, and it allowed the writers to explore the universe and current events.  Both Discovery and Picard go with a season wide plot.  It's like watching a 10 hour movie instead of a series of episodes and therefore the writers really only get to tell one big story.  The styling is so different from the episodic style that the feeling of the show is going to be different.  Different isn't bad, it's just different.

Your right the show has definitely taken a different perspective. Episodic story has its plus’s, but it also has its flaws as well.  When you look at each aspect of the show it can have its upsides. 
 

Episodic stories are interesting and if you miss one the whole plot may not be lost, but in the other hand and I think this is why they started doing it this way. Is so that you watch every episode when it releases so you keep with the story no matter what. Though that poses an issue in my opinion, as the episodic stories always have something different and the plot is drawn out, but with the new episodes you have a good idea of what’s coming next. 
 

I’m not saying anything is perfect, but I will say every show has its flaws and as a fan you can embrace them or not, but that doesn’t mean you have to hate the franchise. I wasn’t saying anyone here does I just know some people that all because of the newest shows do not like the franchise anymore, which I find ridiculous. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I could have sworn I replied to this yesterday in a way too long post, and now suddenly I can't see any trace of that post... weird.

Anyway, the basic gist of it was that being a fan of Trek since 94 right at the end of TNG, I've seen how every Trek show and movie since gets the same division of many fans liking it, some not sure, and others quite vocal in their dislike. According to the TNG cast, the same happened with them when their show first premiered.

Ultimately, as we continue to get more Trek shows, it'll be okay if not everyone likes every show. Trek has moved beyond just one show and one overall concept of a ship doing it's weekly adventures on a mission of exploration. I compare it to music. It's okay not to like every song out there or even every song of an artist you do like. I think a lot of the negativity though nowadays is from people who get a little too obsessed with the hate-watching, which I think social media and YouTube have really helped feed. To be clear, I don't think that fits anyone here in our community, but we all know it's an issue that isn't just in the Trek fandom but also Star Wars, Doctor Who, and practically anything else these days. And with some "critics" I see online or making videos, you almost wonder if our culture has just shifted to one of making entertainment from bashing other creative works (even tongue in cheek videos that name everything a movie did wrong or how it should have ended, etc.). But I can't help but notice it seems a lot of times, it's just the common theme that the newer stuff since that of childhood (or whatever a person's first entry into a fandom was) doesn't live up to the legacy of their fandom.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

That is very well put @Roshanara Rahman I have to agree with your assessment. I never made this to upset anyone just trying to see all the different point of views, as this is the things I have been hearing from people. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Roshanara Rahman said:

And with some "critics" I see online or making videos, you almost wonder if our culture has just shifted to one of making entertainment from bashing other creative works (even tongue in cheek videos that name everything a movie did wrong or how it should have ended, etc.).

I had a thought along these lines recently, about how we are judgemental creatures, it's in the nature; an innate, automatic trait. It's not a new thing either; polarising opinions about media have existed since the dawn of media. What critics have now is unprecedented access to millions of minds consuming all the time, barely stopping to form a free-thinking opinion of their own before diving into the next bit of consumption for the masses, and we know about the science of repetition.

One of the first things i heard about the new Star Wars movies were that they didn't fit the genre, they were convoluted, they didn't pass muster for all the Star Wars fans out there. Elitism and gate keeping can be rife in any fandom, and a bit of it has transferred to Trek. 

Ya gotta take a step back, man. Push out that jive. Breathe in the love.

Media is, in it's essence, an art form, and it's designed to make you *feel* something.  You don't have to like all of it. There's no "true fan" for loving one part and disliking another. There's a paradigm shift when you appreciate one another for a difference in opinion, a difference in what someone else feels about a media you enjoy, and appreciate we're all unique. 

This is coming from someone who liked the new Picard, thinks the best Star Trek series in recent years is the Orville (fite me), the best movie was Galaxy Quest, and have not seen all of Disco because that ship looks like a pizza cutter and I can't take spore drive / hurting someone for the sake of using it seriously. 

Also, Section 31 shouldn’t have been implemented.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Roshanara Rahman said:

Section 31 shouldn't have been introduced at all to Trek. It forever tarnished the dream of a Federation/Trek utopia with its cynical take that such a thing could not possibly exist without someone else watching over and doing the "dirty" work behind the scenes that "needs to be done."

My opinion on Section 31 has always been torn, but your point is probably the best I have ever heard. As you say the Federation is supposed to be like a utopia. 
 

Section 31 shouldn’t exist I agree. As you say the other factions have something like that, but the Federation is supposed to be the peaceful society. So such a peaceful society should not have an organization that would contradict everything the Federation is for. 
 

I am truly thankful that here we don’t sim Section 31. 

Edited by Maddi Hyden
Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Maddi Hyden said:

I am truly thankful that here we do sim Section 31. 

I'm not so sure about that one. It's extremely unlikely any serving officer aside from those heavily entrenched in Intelligence (i.e. upper echelons only) would know about it. Starfleet Officers certainly wouldn't, or have had any interactions with them. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Jo Marshall said:

I'm not so sure about that one. It's extremely unlikely any serving officer aside from those heavily entrenched in Intelligence (i.e. upper echelons only) would know about it. Starfleet Officers certainly wouldn't, or have had any interactions with them. 

I mean’t don’t. Sorry

Link to post
Share on other sites

😂 No worries, dude. Typos be the death.

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jo Marshall said:

😂 No worries, dude. Typos be the death.

That’s the truth of it! Makes one phrase go down the waste tube quick. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/15/2020 at 6:50 AM, Roshanara Rahman said:

Anyway, the basic gist of it was that being a fan of Trek since 94 right at the end of TNG, I've seen how every Trek show and movie since gets the same division of many fans liking it, some not sure, and others quite vocal in their dislike. According to the TNG cast, the same happened with them when their show first premiered.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too – there was lots of commentary about how people didn't like TNG when it premiered. I think it's just a given that people get attached to their vision of their favorite stories, and only want to see it continue as they knew it previously.

 

On 5/15/2020 at 10:46 AM, Roshanara Rahman said:

Section 31 shouldn't have been introduced at all to Trek. It forever tarnished the dream of a Federation/Trek utopia with its cynical take that such a thing could not possibly exist without someone else watching over and doing the "dirty" work behind the scenes that "needs to be done."

The thing that Discovery muddled a bit to me is that I got the sense in the DS9 era that Section 31 was actually operating "outside" of Starfleet and the Federation control? Like, maybe there was some kind of "top echelon" of Starfleet or the Federation that was still supplying it with resources but that it didn't actually have a mandate anywhere in normal structures and if Federation legislators knew about it they'd disavow or put a stop to it. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends on how far out into the EU you go into. (Section 31 is an extant force being actively worked with in Starfleet Command in quite a few of those books).

Personally, I've always thought that Section 31 existing as a thing is pretty logical, but I didn't really like how Discovery just went all down that hole. (Of course, in Discovery, they were attacking Earth, so I can understand why they'd resort to any-measures thinking. And consider, it's canon that we attempted to blow up Quo'nos.)

But:

I don't really like Section 31 as more than something the heroes have to overcome.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

I like your thoughts @Tiria Hamasaki and I appreciate everyone chiming in. This conversation has been really good and I appreciate all the people that gave me their opinions. I know everyone is different and the Trek fandom is diverse. I just wanted to hear what everyone else had to say. 
 

After hearing some of what I have heard from people it was refreshing to see so many opinions that point to one thing. We all love Trek in our own way! Not everyone likes everything, but they don’t have too. The love for Trek expands to so much and I’m not only glad to be a part of that fandom but also part of this fleet full of talented writers and true Trek fans. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.